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Thread: Endurance Racing Survey

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    628

    Default Endurance Racing Survey

    .
    For the past eight years the South Jersey Region has conducted The Devil in the Dark 12 Hour Endurance Race at New Jersey Motorsports Park. The Region has enjoyed presenting these events and competitors have expressed considerable support and appreciation for our efforts.

    Unfortunately, attendance at this year's edition of The Devil dropped by over 50% for a variety of reasons. The Region incurred a very significant financial loss which is impacting other SJR events this year. There is serious consideration being given to dropping the 12 Hour from our 2018 schedule.

    In spite of the loss this year, the Region would like to continue with our signature event if our risk can be substantially reduced. We are contemplating adjustments to the event to increase its popularity and turnout.

    We are seeking opinions from participants in The Devil in the Dark 12 Hours and the Charge of the Headlight Brigade 13 Hours as well any as anybody interested in long distance endurance racing. We have prepared a short 3 to 5 minute survey to gather your ideas and preferences. To take the survey, click on this link:




    We encourage all endurance racing enthusiasts to help us find a winning formula for the last remaining SCCA long distance endurance race. Feel free to forward this survey request to your co-drivers and team members and other interested individuals.


    Thank you for your insights

    Terry

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    517

    Default

    Look at the success of AER events. Talk to those that have run with them.
    Jerry
    NER South

  3. #3

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    SCCA may have an image issue with younger players. We are seen as too many hoops and hassle to race with . All true.
    The competitor series are easy access . Pay the entry , tech the car and race. How can SCCA ease the access to these players? Do we want to?

    The venue may be part of the problem , I know that the tire rule is, along withe fuel rig rule.
    Chump has had a steady decline as the speed has creeped up and bucket list tracks have been hit. Still strong and well run .
    If you want success, find a way to allow low time racers, without the SCCA medical dance and paper work /novice permit . Accept the PCA/BMW/ Chumpcar licenses.
    Stipulate 10 min black flags for contact or missed flags.
    Some other attention grabbers are , cash prizes. 180 TW tires, no fuel rigs.

    SCCA is still getting laughed at about the Bracket enduro thing. It may have ended your race.

    I still say that your "Saturday Night Special" races could be a good hit. Maybe mix in a SNS with a conventional race weekend and work up from there. 4- 6 hrs sat eve into the dark.
    Last edited by Flyinglizard; 08-07-2017 at 09:06 PM.
    Mike W. Ogren , FWDracingguide.com, 352.4288.983 ,http://www.ogren-engineering.com/

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    7,710

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    Why did I know, when I saw Mike had replied to this topic, that one of the first points to be brought up was street tires...?

    "Not my circus, not my monkeys..."
    No longer bathing in the "universal fearlessness of inexperience"... - B. Redmond


  5. #5

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    Mike W. Ogren , FWDracingguide.com, 352.4288.983 ,http://www.ogren-engineering.com/

  6. #6

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    I know this is silly.... but I think we are doomed if we don't do something drastic... I say stop fighting and let's partner with AER.

    We have something to offer them that they don't have.
    Insurance.
    They have something we don't have.
    Attendance.

    I am sure something could be worked out. Heck who cares if you take any profit from the event at all as long as you don't lose money, so go ahead... give it all to them. Just have them pay the dues owed to national. We gain exposure as a club to an entire group of potential customers in a small demographic.

    Don't think it will work? NER didn't think giving up the school to Thompson would work.. they finally took the jump and financially it seems to me that it is working. Give JB a call and ask him for his advice on that and move forward from that.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Amy View Post
    Why did I know, when I saw Mike had replied to this topic, that one of the first points to be brought up was street tires...?


    Having a required street tire rule is silly. It's a false sense of cost savings vs disadvantage. The only thing I would do is change the rules to allow any size street tire if you opt for a tire that is 180tw or higher. That will be a great equalizer. The rest is all perceived by those that run the street tires...

    We ran with the fast guys on street tires.

  8. #8

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    C

    It doesnt matter what we think . What matters is what the younger and ex SCCA endurance racers think. Lemons and Chump got their start by allowing any idiot to race. Chump went further and got the epic tracks. Easy access and low entry threshold cost built their market . SCCA scoffed at all of this. And still does.
    SCCA has to repair their image to be accepting and less of a hassle. In lieu of that, SCCA must provide an exceptional experience for the endurance racer today. I firmly believe that running the "Saturday Night Special" races on normal race weekends will prove to be successful . Labeling can be everything. Putting up a little cash would clinch it.
    **** Why would anyone go through the hassle to get an SCCA license if they go run AER , WRL, Chump with a little documented WTW time.***

    Contact is not allowed at any of these venues. Way less contact than SCCA races. Most incidents have been true lost newbs and Miata( SCCA) racers shoving through .

    As far as the tire deals . say what you will . But I am data driven and 6 tires for a 24 hrs race is less than 12 tires.
    I have one of my prepped Miata running VIR 24 this weekend and they may not change tires at all Tires last 10 to 30 hrs.
    False economy ? how?
    Between this page and my ADD it gets a little funky sorry.
    Last edited by Flyinglizard; 08-11-2017 at 09:23 AM.
    Mike W. Ogren , FWDracingguide.com, 352.4288.983 ,http://www.ogren-engineering.com/

  9. #9

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    SCCA already has the CRE program. SCCA already accepts other sanction licenses. Regions write the Supplemental Regulations. Sounds like a local region issue, not an SCCA issue.

  10. #10

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    On paper it works. Find your buddy that runs chump and send him to an SCCA event and tell me how it works out. Most regions dont know anything about this CRE thing.
    Mike W. Ogren , FWDracingguide.com, 352.4288.983 ,http://www.ogren-engineering.com/

  11. #11

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    Don't project your local problem onto the rest of the Club.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyinglizard View Post
    On paper it works. Find your buddy that runs chump and send him to an SCCA event and tell me how it works out. Most regions dont know anything about this CRE thing.

  12. #12

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    Peter,
    Are you implying that some chumper driver could walk up to registration @ the Devil 12 hr, sign up for the weekend member deal , and be allowed to race?
    Mike W. Ogren , FWDracingguide.com, 352.4288.983 ,http://www.ogren-engineering.com/

  13. #13

    Default

    No. Nor should he. If he has prior experience there is a way to get license requirements waived. Do you know who your Divisional Licensing Chairman is? Do you know what the procedure is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyinglizard View Post
    Peter,
    Are you implying that some chumper driver could walk up to registration @ the Devil 12 hr, sign up for the weekend member deal , and be allowed to race?
    Last edited by Peter Olivola; 08-12-2017 at 12:05 PM.

  14. #14

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    I thought that this thread is to discuss the falling entries of the 12 hr. I poster, in order, Unheard of track/venue, low publicity, poor tire rule, poor fuel rig rule, poor accessibility of SCCA.
    If the track was epic, then entrys would pick up and outsiders would be tempted to play the SCCA license game .

    If the tire and fuel rules fits the general endurance rules of the rest of the successful series, entries may pick up .
    Gaining normal SCCA entries;Club racers have a good tire schedule and know what the 7 Hoosier R7 will cost and simply think about the cost of those tires. Mandating the 180 TW tires saved everyone money , evens up the cornering speeds and seems to be a win /win every where they are run. I have never seen any downsides. The Vintage groups even use them on their uber expensive cars and weekends.

    I was pretty sure that the weekend pass will not sufice for entry. I dont know for sure. Nobody seems to know much about it.
    SCCA still has the outdated medical requirements, novice book hoops etc. The event must be inviting enough to temp the
    outsiders to jump through these hoops . This event is not , IMHO.
    Mike W. Ogren , FWDracingguide.com, 352.4288.983 ,http://www.ogren-engineering.com/

  15. #15

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    To clarify a few things. Chump is far from perfect . The speed creep has been huge in the first 8yrs, but has stabilized a little. Our trap speeds at Daytona started at about 115/ 2:48 and new we need about 145+ and run 2:18 or so for 14 hrs.
    But their success is based on nationwide rule set, publicity, and a webpage that covers all of the questions. Easy peasy entry, nice people running the events and tech.

    To have this sort of exposure/success,IMHO, SCCA would have to split off the management of endurance races and build a separate web page /forum.
    The best plan would simply race on normal weekends and pay the regions per hr of track time, like any other business.
    Mike W. Ogren , FWDracingguide.com, 352.4288.983 ,http://www.ogren-engineering.com/

  16. #16

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    So, that would be a no, you don't know your Divisional Licensing person or the procedure for getting a license through him/her. Try the SEDiv webite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyinglizard View Post
    I thought that this thread is to discuss the falling entries of the 12 hr. I poster, in order, Unheard of track/venue, low publicity, poor tire rule, poor fuel rig rule, poor accessibility of SCCA.
    If the track was epic, then entrys would pick up and outsiders would be tempted to play the SCCA license game .

    If the tire and fuel rules fits the general endurance rules of the rest of the successful series, entries may pick up .
    Gaining normal SCCA entries;Club racers have a good tire schedule and know what the 7 Hoosier R7 will cost and simply think about the cost of those tires. Mandating the 180 TW tires saved everyone money , evens up the cornering speeds and seems to be a win /win every where they are run. I have never seen any downsides. The Vintage groups even use them on their uber expensive cars and weekends.

    I was pretty sure that the weekend pass will not sufice for entry. I dont know for sure. Nobody seems to know much about it.
    SCCA still has the outdated medical requirements, novice book hoops etc. The event must be inviting enough to temp the
    outsiders to jump through these hoops . This event is not , IMHO.

  17. #17

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    What makes you think aer is so great? It was a crash fest at Watkins Glen in April with a team being booted for a year. And don't kid yourself nobody cares about insurance and besides the other groups all have insurance, they have to. SCCA has problems waaay beyond insurance. Who's fighting with who ? and why would any other group want to team up with you guys you haven't seen the future and now your sinking.
    The chump 24 event at VIR was one of the best run events I have ever attended in 20 yrs, with a handfull of officials compared to scca.

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