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Thread: Scca Itr Vs Jp Bmw Club Racing Car

  1. #1

    Default Scca Itr Vs Jp Bmw Club Racing Car

    I wanted to let some of you who are interested what point out the between these 2 cars and classes are. It will be easiest to just show what the BMW JP cars are allowed that the SCCA ITR cars are not.
    1. Cams
    2. upgrade front and rear brakes to 4 piston calipers
    3. Wings
    4. Valve springs, keepers, etc. are open
    Just to name a few things. A true built JP E36 325, 328, Z3 and/ or E30 M3 will NOT be legal in SCCA ITR.

    I now return you to your normally scheduled programming.....

  2. #2
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    Sorry - why was there any question about any of this...?

    K

  3. #3

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    Probably need to point this out on the BMW forums. I've communicated with a couple of BMW club racers who think their JP cars is ITS and ITR legal. And theirs might be legal in ITS or ITR, if it isn't competitive in JP and is using the stock cams.

  4. #4

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    There should not be any questions from ITB people. :~)

    "I've communicated with a couple of BMW club racers who think their JP cars is ITS and ITR legal. And theirs might be legal in ITS or ITR, if it isn't competitive in JP and is using the stock cams."

    Ron, you are correct, I know of one Legal ITR car who races in JP class. He can't beat the front runing JP cars but is very competitive only because he is a good driver.
    Last edited by dj10; 09-30-2009 at 12:57 PM.

  5. #5

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    I think I know what he is implying.
    Rob Driscoll
    ITS 25
    NER

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by robits325is View Post
    I think I know what he is implying.
    Yep Rob, any JP car that the shoe fits.

  7. #7

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    I can think of one.....
    Rob Driscoll
    ITS 25
    NER

  8. #8
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    Yup,

    Got really whooped by that one recently. Gorgeous car though...

    R
    Rob Breault
    BMW 328is #36
    2008 Driving Impressions Pro-ITA Champion
    2008 NARRC DP Champion
    2009 NARRC ITR Champion
    2009 Team DI Pro-ITR Champion

  9. #9

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    Hey Dan.

    Are there any items that are ITR legal but not JP legal?

    What is the difference in weights?

    How about suspension prep?

    Does anyone have any lap time comparisons?
    John Norris
    #07 ITS/R BMW 325is
    #07 ITS BMW 325
    Sponsors:
    GREEN FLASH BEER
    GT International BMW Service since 1976

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by NORRIS View Post
    Hey Dan.

    Are there any items that are ITR legal but not JP legal?

    What is the difference in weights?

    How about suspension prep?

    Does anyone have any lap time comparisons?
    Hey Norris, how goes it out west?
    I can answer a couple of your questions with out any research.
    ITR is completely legal to run in JP class @ 2765#.

    I'll double check on the weight unless someone else can answer that question.

    I'm not certain about the suspension. I read the rule book but forgot.

    At Summit Point, WVa., a JP car is about 1 to 1.5 sec faster on the 2 mile course. There is a link to a video that actually shows the difference between a JP 325 and a legal ITR car. search itr vs jp.

    I copied this from the bmw rule book, just a few. :~)
    a. Suspension components that control rear camber may be replaced with aftermarket components to provide this adjustment.


    5. Suspension bushing material is free.
    a. Bushing material does not include replacement of bushings with spherical bearings or rod ends such as Heim ends except as noted in F below.
    b. Solid bushings are allowed if fixed in place and allow rotation in a single plane or axis.
    6. Spherical bearings are permitted in the following components.
    a. Front upper strut mounts.
    b. Upper and lower rear shock mounts.
    c. Rear lower control arms.
    d. Camber plates.

    Rotors are free (except carbon rotors are not allowed). The rotors must fit within wheels that comply with paragraph 3.A, above.
    2. Calipers are free with the following limitations: 4 piston maximum, 2-piece design, 1 caliper per wheel.
    3. The number of master cylinders must be as supplied by the factory, except that early production cars (i.e. 1600, 1800 and 2002) may update to tandem master cylinder for the safety of the dual circuit system.
    4. Master cylinders may be modified to increase volumetric flow.
    Last edited by dj10; 09-30-2009 at 04:26 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by robits325is View Post
    I can think of one.....
    I know that car, he made some $ recently, right?
    Jake Gulick


    CarriageHouse Motorsports
    for sale: 2003 Audi A4 Quattro, clean, serviced, dark green, auto, sunroof, tan leather with 75K miles.
    IT-7 #57 RX-7 race car
    Porsche 1973 911E street/fun car
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    lateapex911(at)gmail(dot)com


  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by lateapex911 View Post
    I know that car, he made some $ recently, right?
    Yea, without beating around the bush, it's Bill Ball's E30 M3. If it's a built JP car it is not legal in ITR. I think it's suspect to everyone.

  13. #13
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    Man, he's gott a lot of balls! (Sorry, couldn't resist a lame ball joke)
    Jake Gulick


    CarriageHouse Motorsports
    for sale: 2003 Audi A4 Quattro, clean, serviced, dark green, auto, sunroof, tan leather with 75K miles.
    IT-7 #57 RX-7 race car
    Porsche 1973 911E street/fun car
    BMW 2003 M3 cab, sun car.
    GMC Sierra Tow Vehicle
    New England Region
    lateapex911(at)gmail(dot)com


  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dj10 View Post
    There should not be any questions from ITB people. :~) ...
    Ooooh, sorry! I didn't know it was super-secret expensive real racey car stuff. I'll go back to the Taco Bell parking lot with the rest of the kids.



    K

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by dj10 View Post
    Hey Norris, how goes it out west?
    I can answer a couple of your questions with out any research.
    ITR is completely legal to run in JP class @ 2765#.
    Not anymore. First of all, you're talking about an E36 325i (you know there are other ITR and JP BMWs, right?)

    Second of all, starting in '09, SCCA IT crossover cars have to run in their SCCA class, not in their equivalent Prepared class. So an ITS car would run as "ITS", not "JP."

    Unless, of course, it's really fully legal for JP. Note that an IT car can have spherical bushings in places that aren't legal in JP. Don't know if YOU do or not. I did until just recently.
    Josh Sirota
    ITR '99 BMW Z3 Coupe

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knestis View Post
    Ooooh, sorry! I didn't know it was super-secret expensive real racey car stuff. I'll go back to the Taco Bell parking lot with the rest of the kids.



    K
    LOL K!
    Just bustin your chops. I'm sure by now you know what's going on.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshS View Post
    Not anymore. First of all, you're talking about an E36 325i (you know there are other ITR and JP BMWs, right?)

    Second of all, starting in '09, SCCA IT crossover cars have to run in their SCCA class, not in their equivalent Prepared class. So an ITS car would run as "ITS", not "JP."

    Unless, of course, it's really fully legal for JP. Note that an IT car can have spherical bushings in places that aren't legal in JP. Don't know if YOU do or not. I did until just recently.
    Another IT legal mod that's not JP legal is an aftermarket ECU, the JP guys have to reflash the stock Seimens unit, or if it's an e-36 325 can swap back to OBD I ( note all of us Z people have to stick with OBD II )
    STU BMW Z3 2.5liter

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z3_GoCar View Post
    Another IT legal mod that's not JP legal is an aftermarket ECU, the JP guys have to reflash the stock Seimens unit, or if it's an e-36 325 can swap back to OBD I ( note all of us Z people have to stick with OBD II )
    We're not talking about the little stuff. I'm talking about the kind of stuff that would let a JP E30 M3 pull a full built E36 326 by 10 cars on the straights. No way is this going to happen with a legal built E30 M3. Not even if the driver is Hans Stuck.

  19. #19
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    I admit that I was pretty impressed with the speed of Ball's car so when I saw the JP stickers on the car I was concerned. Bill Ball the owner said it was built to the max over many years. I would expect a built to the max car would be taking advantage of all that can be done under JP rules. I plan on visiting the gentleman to request a look at his ride, hopefully with a BMW expert with me. I will have the JP rules in my pocket. I have discussed this with at least one club official.
    BenSpeed
    #33 ITR Porsche 968
    BigSpeed Racing
    2013 ITR Pro IT Champion

  20. #20
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    Yeah Ben,

    I talked to him after last race and just said (tongue in cheek) "That track record will stand for a long time." I don't think he got what I was saying. I knew that the car was fast before last NJMP even happened. When I saw him signed up I checked the BMWCCA Club racing section of my last couple of Roundels and saw he was a JP winner at some events. There goes that. Fortunately for me he spun with 2 turns to go and handed me the win.....sometimes it's better to be lucky than good

    R
    Rob Breault
    BMW 328is #36
    2008 Driving Impressions Pro-ITA Champion
    2008 NARRC DP Champion
    2009 NARRC ITR Champion
    2009 Team DI Pro-ITR Champion

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